The Genetic Disk (Updated)

NOTE: In an earlier version of this post I mentioned that I had been unsuccessful at contacting Dr. Vera M. F. Hammer to get her comments on the Genetic Disk. After this post was published, and through the wonders of twitter, I was able to get in contact with her and she gave me some great insights into her involvement with the disk. Also, I’ve learned a bit about mineralogy and the differences between chert and schits and so have changed parts of the post due to this new information. I will note the areas that have been changed with an UPDATED tag. Thanks again to Dr. Hammer and to Edward Habsburg (@EdwardHabsburg)  who connected us. 

The red flags on this one just fly through the air. Just about nothing about this “artifact” makes sense. Honestly, it’s a little hard to know where to start here with this one.  I guess a description is in order.

The disk is said to be made out of lydite and measures 22 cm in diameter and weighs 2 Kg.  It’s apparently solid black in color and shaped like a Bi Disk. It’s carved on both faces, and has random images carved on it depicting what some are calling “the cycle of life.”

I can’t find any official origin story for the disk. What I can cobble together from the websites that focus on the disk is only that it was found somewhere in Columbia by a gentleman named Jaime Gutierrez-Lega, who  is a well known industrial designer in Columbia. At some point after it was found it was taken to the Museum of Natural Sciences of Vienna, Austria, and reportedly studied by Dr. Vera M. F. Hammer. She somehow managed to date the stone and apparently assigned it to the Pre-Columbian Muisca-culture.

Now, lets really begin to break this one down, because I’m rather surprised this one fools anyone once you really start to look at it.

First, There is no account or record of the Genetic Disk ever being discovered. This is kind of unusual because even fake artifacts have origin stories usually listing time(s) and place(s), often giving details of how the artifacts were found and by who. This time all we have is “The Disk was found in Columbia by Jaime Gutierrez-Lega.” This doesn’t tell us anything, and it’s sure  doesn’t help create confidence in authenticity.  Columbia is a big place, where in Columbia was it found? How did Gutierrez-Lega discover it? Was he digging with a group or did he just stub his toe on it? Why is there no record of it being discovered? Are there any other witnesses to the discovery? What did he do to preserve it? Where did he take it? Who else saw this artifact? Does Mr. Gutierrez-Lega even know he’s associated with the Disk or is he a convenient target for the conspiratorial minded?

What I have been able to cobble together about the Genetic Disk I’ve found on a variety of personal blogs, that I will list in the resources below. However, other than repeating the same shoddy details, they mainly just marvel over how cool the carvings are on the Disk and how they clearly show “the process of life” including two naked individuals, images of sperm, fertilized eggs, embryos, and some other random squiggles.  I mean, these are cool images, very sleek and modern looking, but they are not evidence of anything by themselves.

(UPDATE) Second. The claim here is that lydite is as hard as granite and is also delicate and flaky, making it too hard for prehistoric people to carve and too delicate for them to carve in such detail anyway. The first problem is that the way people are trying to support these claims is comparing the MOHS scale reading of lydite to that of granite. Never-minding that lydite and granite are two completely different types of rock (Hammer 2013), the MOHS scale  does not apply to rock, so the hardness of the rock used to carve the disk is not relevant (Hammer 2013)

As to not being able to carve something like this mysterious delicate and flaky rock, I’d like to point out that prehistoric peoples were incredibly gifted at carving shell and thin sheets of Mica into gorgets and other forms of jewelry. They were just as capable at carving delicate materials as they were crafting stone tools.

Now, that’s not saying I believe that the Genetic Disk is made out of any of these materials. There is nothing supporting the descriptions of the Disk. It is my opinion that the stone the Disk is made of is not lydite at all. Dr. Hammer gave a good deal of information on the actual  composition of the material of the disk, and I am leaving that for the section below.

(UPDATED) Third. Lets begin to look at the people involved with the disk.

The supposed finder of the Genetic Disk is Jaime Gutierrez-Lega, who  is an Industrial Designer known for his modern and sleek designs in his artwork. We know Gutierrez-Lega is a real person, but I have no idea what, if anything, he has to do with archaeology. I can’t really say more than that with any certainty. I have not been able to find a way to contact him. However, if this story is remotely true, I find it very suspicious that an modern artist found an artifact out of the blue, that looks very sleek and very modern in design. I’m not saying Mr. Gutierrez-Lega has done anything, it’s my guess he’s probably not involved, or if he is, he’s been horribly taken out of context and his goodwill taken advantage of.

Which brings us to the next participant. As I stated at the beginning of this post, Dr. Vera M.F. Hammer recently contacted me to answer my questions about her involvement with the disk. She was very kind to do so, and it was very exciting to talk to someone living who is involved in something like this. I have reproduced  Dr. Hammer’s account here.

Dr. Hammer is a Mineralogist, not a Geologist as some sites (myself included, sorry.) have said.  Since 1992 she has worked as a curator for the Natural History Museum in Vienna, Department of Mineralogy and Petrography.  According to Dr. Hammer she first encountered the disk in 2001 through Mr. Klaus Dona, an individual I didn’t touch on last time, but will get to this time. But first, Dr. Hammer’s account:

“I was asked in the year 2001 by Mr. Klaus Dona, who curated the exhibition “Unsolved Mysteries” in the same year in Vienna, to make XRD analyses of some of the exhibited objects. Most of the objects include new materials and I told him that this were fakes, but this is not what he wants to hear… Even other scientists from our Museum told the owners of the objects, and Mr. Klaus Dona, that all that stuff is not what they believed. Some of the exhibited objects were curiosities by the nature, others man made new stuff which you can buy in any touristic shop in that areas. But anyway, our comment about the so called „genetic disc“ was only that it consists of feldspar, quartz and mica, which was proved by XRD measurement.

My former director who was petrologist said, that this rock could be lydite (a grey to black fine grained schist) or an artificial product made of this minerals. I never classified the disk or any other of these objects to a special cultural period or give any statement of age, which in fact are not part of my competence. So, this was the only information we gave, not more! All interpretation of symbols and signs, age or anything else arise in the head of the owner and/or the curator of the exhibition! There was no author given in the catalogue about “Unsolved Mysteries”, so in fact, I don’t know who writes all that nonsense!”

Dr. Hammer’s statement pretty much concludes this whole thing. The one and only official researcher who is mentioned as having studied the Disk tells us it is a fake.

So let’s take that closer look at Mr. Klaus Dona.

Mr. Dona appears to be based out of Austria and calls himself a Spiritual Archaeologist. I’m not sure what that means, but I’m pretty skeptical it’s a real sub-field of archaeology. Mr. Dona’s website is Unsolved Mysteries, where he sells some books, has some more extensive explanations of the Genetic Disk and other artifacts. In his explanation for the Disk he says “Geologists at the University of Bogotá date it to a prehistoric epoch. The most recent examinations were unable to find evidence of faking.” Except for the researchers at Natural History Museum in Vienna telling him they were fakes and also the fact that Geologists aren’t going to be able to date an artifact, also I notice he’s stopped giving the names of his researchers.

Mr. Dona also has a hard time keeping his own facts straight. In a video on YouTube titled “Klaus Dona – The Hidden History of the Human Race – Must Watch” at about 25:50 he begins to talk about the Disk. He says there is no way to identify the culture that produced the artifacts and that the way the artifacts were dated was by guessing the artifacts were older than any known civilization in the area, therefore they must be 6,000 years old. Very scientific. He doesn’t mention how any of these things were found, where exactly they were found, why they are considered older than all other civilizations in the area, or who the researchers were that helped date and identify and interpret the Disk et al. He gives no evidence whatsoever to back up any of his claims.

Fourth. It is really hard to date rock, and assuming you could get a date, you would literally be dating the rock itself, not the artifact that was made out of the rock. There is often no organic material on rock to date to get an age for the artifact, and so, often the age of rock artifacts is reliant on the context of the area it was found in, or, as in the case of stone tools, the style in which the artifact was made.  So how they got a date for the Disk is beyond me. Unless people are trying to say that the age of the rock is concurrent with the age of the Muisca-culture, in that case, there is no evidence to support this. Though according the Mr. Dona, they are basically just making it up. 

Fifth and lastly. I don’t see any similarities between the artwork on the Disk and the artwork left behind by the Muisca-culture. The few Muisca items I’ve seen don’t look anything like the Disk. Which I guess is the point, but if this was a culture that lived along side of the Muisca, why is there no other evidence of their presence? If this was a more advanced people, visiting their vast knowledge on an ancient peoples, why is there no further evidence for their presence? If this was the work of aliens, then why is there no further evidence….well you get the point.

(Updated) My Observations.

The Genetic Disk is just so bizarre to me because, if you ask any questions at all about it, the whole story begins to fall apart. The one named researcher who supposedly helped date and decode the disk clearly did not. Not only that, she clearly told Mr. Dona that the Disk and it’s related artifacts were fakes. The museum where the Disk was supposedly studied is a fake place. There is no documentation, fake or otherwise, to support where and how the disk was found. The material of the disk could probably be man-made, meaning that the Disk could have been (probably is) a cast. Mr. Dona, being informed of this, continues to change his story about the Disk, evolving it to meet his needs. I mean, the only thing I am convinced of is that somewhere there is an object that looks like the picture above.  There is absolutely nothing supporting the validity or reality of the disk.


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Comment below or send an email to ArchyFantasies@gmail.com

Resources:

Hammer, Vera M. F.

2013    Personal Correspondence via Email. December 17, 2013.

N.d    Personal reference page – http://www.nhm-wien.ac.at/en/research/mineralogy__petrography/staff/vera_m_f_hammer. Accessed 12/11/2013

Hurst, K. Kris.

N.d.   Musica Culture. About.com http://archaeology.about.com/cs/glossary/g/muisca.htm”>http://archaeology.about.com/cs/glossary/g/muisca.htm. Accessed 12/11/2013

Questionable Resources:

Above Top Secret. The Awesome Mystery of the Pre Columbian “Genetic Disc”. Astonishing Knowledge!  http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread770144/pg1.  Accessed 12/11/2013

Klaus Dona, Spiritual Archaeologist. http://projectcamelot.org/klaus_dona.html. Accessed 12/11/2013

Onovus: Ancient Mysteries and Present Discoveries. Genetic Disc | Advanced Biological Knowledge in Ancient Times. https://onovus.wordpress.com/tag/genetic-disk/. Accessed 12/11/2013

Unsolved Mysteries: The Genetic Disc. http://unsolved-mysteries.info/english/objects/e01_01c.htm. Accessed 12/11/2013

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Categories: Weird Archaeology | Tags: , , , , , | 52 Comments

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52 thoughts on “The Genetic Disk (Updated)

  1. Very interesting read. An exhaustive and compelling critique.

    Like

  2. skyli19

    nicely written and you are probably right
    but what if there is no evidence, no data, no pictures, no direct answers to you, only because somebody don’t wont us to know – conspiracy theory hihihi

    Like

    • I’d only have to ask, Who is this “somebody”? Why don’t they want us to know? What harm could come of this if it were real? Who benefits from keeping it secret?

      These and other questions would have to be addressed before I would even consider the reality of the Disk. As is, currently I don’t believe the disk even is a tangible object.

      Like

      • skyli19

        If all this so called conspiracy theories (or at least half of them) were true we all know that first the church would make a big fuzz (they would probably loose lot’s of believers – with that money) than all the school books would have to be rewritten (to many expenses – government) also for the majority of the people it is easier to accept and understood the Darwin’s theory (mass kaos). Just a few somebodies.
        Don’t misunderstand me the way your article is written (very good) you can really believe that this disc is a prank. But maybe some others are not.

        Like

      • Well, The Church is no concern of mine, and I suspect they have far less power than is attributed to them. Also, when they come out against things, it tends to backfire on them and those things become even more popular. Not to mention the Church is not at odds with modern science, because science has nothing to do with religion.

        As for the school books, those change yearly anyway and it’s up to the individual states (or at least it is here in the USA) to decide which books to use and what is in them. As our recent trouble with the Texas school board has shown. So, here in the USA, this is also not an issue.

        Lastly, Mass Kaos is not Darwin’s theory, and Evolution, as it is understood and taught today, has evolved well beyond Darwin’s modest theory. Also, evolution is a field of science and as such is ruled by evidence. If you can prove something and it can survive the harsh criticism of your peers, then it will be accepted and incorporated into the field. Science is self correcting, though I admit, it does take time.

        If there was convincing evidence of these things being real, believe me, researchers would be fighting over being the first to discover and analyze them.

        Like

      • Rowan D.

        Exactly “why” someone or some organization would want to hide something is a question I often ask myself. If there really were aliens and the government had made contact, why would they hide this from the public? Wouldn’t we benefit from the technology they could bring? And if there were artifacts that were “found” that a government doesn’t want us to access, such as the Chinese pyramids where only peasant farmers are allowed into the area of, why should they hide it? What gives them the right?

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  3. Excellent job! It’s good that you have been able to contact Dr. Hammer! And I have a feeling that Klaus Dona should be challenged more often 🙂

    Like

    • Julia1174B

      A group of russian “alternative history” enthusiasts (majority of whom are physics scientists) have contacted Mr Dona, asking him if they could have his artifacts to study. I heard he was very un-cooperative. He probably know what happened to the original crystal scull.

      Like

  4. Senua

    Some of the figues on that disc remind of prehistoric Venus figurines. Some look like Neolithic figurines and the two squatting females at the bottom look very like sheela na gigs which are found carved in churches in the UK. Looks like someone has copied various images from different periods plus adding some of their own to make this fake.

    Like

  5. Pingback: El asombroso disco genético precolombino | La mentira esta ahi fuera

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  9. Adam Daniel wray

    Easy mate just read through what your website had to say and quite frankly you have no evidence here disproving the disc and not meaning to be rude but I don’t particulary have a problem with you having an opinion that is likely to be wrong but expressing this to other people could be damiging to the integrity of the find which I see as rather maraculas and if your interested in the disk dr klaus took the disk or at least had involvement in the disk with a mr Eric von daniken who dedicated nearly a full chapter of one of his books to the disk there is more confirmation of its integrity there I’ve forgot which book it’s in but there a more reliable source of information then most Internet sorces sorry about the spelling and the rudeness but I don’t mean to be lol

    Like

    • Adam Daniel wray

      I think it’s the same klaus any way name rings a bell but thort it was a man js lol

      Like

    • I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at here. Are you trying to use Von Daniken as a reference to support the authenticity of the Genetic disk? If so, I don’t find that very compelling and would encourage you to red the post again.

      Like

  10. TurdBurglar

    Really all this proves is that the material in the rock contains material we classify as “modern”

    Considering this Klaus Donna guy’s whole point is arguing for advanced technologies in the ancient past, stating there are advanced materials in the rock prove only that there are advanced materials in the rock. No age is assumed from this materials presence (unless you want the rock to be “fake”, then you assume the mystery is solved) But playing devil’s advocate the “ancient” side can just claim the advanced materials suggest ancients had technology, and the “fake” side can claim the same materials suggest it is a fake.

    It’s circular logic. However, it is good to know this Vera doctor feels like she was being coerced and encouraged by Klaus to make things sound more interesting. That is revealing as well.

    Like

    • To say something is “modern” is to place it within a recent time frame, it’s not the same as saying something is “advanced”. Donna wants us to believe that these articles are of ancient origins, but that is not supported by the evidence.

      Like

  11. LJ

    May I ask – did you actually able to physically examine this disk? Or was there an independent examination made?

    There’s a lot of “probably this” “probably that” in what you’re saying. More like you’re just guessing.

    I hope we can have someone physically scrutinize these artifacts.

    Like

    • Dr. Hammer examined the disk and it’s related items herself. She has given us a first person account.

      Like

      • LJ

        Thanks.. There seems to be a lot of claims of wild archeological finds these days.. Maybe someone could put up a tv show where experts cross-examine these OOPs.. That would be a fun and informative gig, as long as they stick to hard facts like carbon dates or radiometric..

        Like

      • There’s been pipe-dreams about such shows, maybe one will succeed one day.

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      • Ashley F Howard

        I am not trying to point out the obvious, but Dr. Hammer examined the object, right? An object you are skeptical to believe exists in physical form. For Dr. Hammer to make any conclusion of it’s compisision, she would have had to have it in her hands. So, that proves the object is not just a picture.

        Like

      • The physical reality of the object isn’t the issue. The historical reality of the object is.

        Like

  12. James

    I really like the way your wrote this. No badmouthing or other such things. The factual way you presented this is exemplary and has been educational to me as I am now listening to Mr. Dona talk about the genetic disc on a YouTube video. Thanks for your discretion and maturity.

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  13. Edmond V.O. Katusz

    Many times when people talk about these unsolved mysteries they give us readers a hard time checking the facts. Names of socalled experts are hardly ever given, so it is very good that you managed to contact Frau Dr. Vera Hammer. I did look her up and found that there is new and shorter URI. So people who want to check out if she is a real person: http://www.nhm-wien.ac.at/vera_m_f_hammer.
    Salut! Edmond V.O. Katusz

    Like

  14. She didn’t say the disc was fake. She said most of the artifacts were fake. Nowhere in her statement that you posted did she say the disc specifically was fake. She specifically said her comment about the disc was only about the materials it contained. Not wether that particular item was fake.
    I don’t personally care if it’s fake or not, just be careful not to put words in people’s mouths.

    Like

  15. kris

    Can I get a ‘Dropa Stones’ anyone? Fizake as a mizutha-fizuck

    Like

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  17. Thanks for the insightful article. A picture of the disc just appeared this evening on Pinterest with the story of its mysterious meanings, age (6,000 years) and carving of unexplained technology. I am glad to find your site with gives a rational explanation.

    Like

  18. Why is it called the “Genetic Disk”? What does it have to do with genetics?

    Like

    • Supposedly the images carved on the disk depict the human embryonic lifecycle and the innards of human cells. I can only guess that whoever named the disk confused these things with genetics. Either that or they thought the name was snazzy.

      Like

  19. Ekaterina Garcha

    Are there any really unsolved geological mysteries? And by the way what is ludite? I couldn’t find what exactly is this nineral if it exists…

    Like

    • Edmond V.O. Katusz

      Dear Ekaterina Garcha,

      Perhaps you mean Luddite? If this is the case check, please this link:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite
      Salut! Edmond V.O. Katusz

      Like

      • Ekaterina Garcha

        I read this page there is nothing about the mineral. I mean that mineral from which they claim the disc is made. I searched in the internet and didn’t find any mineral with such name. Maybe it has other names? Or simply doesn’t exsist?

        Like

      • Edmond V.O. Katusz

        Well another little mysterie solved! 8-))
        Salut! Edmond V.O. Katusz

        Like

  20. Ekaterina Garcha

    Uraa! I found it. I just typed it incorrectly. It is just black basaltic rock containing plagioclase, augite, olivine, and nepheline, leucite, or analcite, formerly used as a touchstone.

    Like

  21. I would like to add something for you people who do not live in latin america (of which Colombia is part of), these countires have laws regarding archaeological finds, all of them are property of the government, and trading and selling them is punished with jail time. Now, our countries and citizens are not known for their honesty. Most likely that disk was found or bought for a couple of dollars from a local somewhere in Colombia; this doesn´t even mean it came from Colombia, it could have been made or forged decades ago. It could have come from anywhere. Also, let me point out that the law here says that if you find so much as an arrowhead in a site, you can´t mine there, so mining companies will remove everything they can find before govt officials arrive to the site. So is it a forgery ? Maybe, so far i have not seen proof that it is a forgery. But I haven´t seen proof that it is real either. I just wanted to let you know that here in latin america you can buy almost anything in the black market. Some years ago, a jade buddah was bought at a flea market (it has now been returned to the indian govt). The buddah had been brought to Chile by a british diplomat and was stolen by one of the maids, she then sold it to a friend who in turn sold it at a flea market, it was almost 1.000 years old. Of course all the newspapers freaked out, but it was traced to be intercontiental antiquity theft. So I just wanted you to know this, as i said before you can buy almost anything, most, if not all are modern fakes made for tourists, and some are real antiquities which will get you thrown in jail if you buy them, but nobody will tell you where they came from.

    Like

    • Eddy VE

      It is propably not from Colombia but from the country where the Nazca-lines are comming from.
      I can see the same figures as there are aspider an ape and so on.

      Like

  22. Thank you for this informative Expose’ – I follow ancient archaeology posts, and personally believe that Some digs and finds are beyond the accepted explanations. But I TOTALLY agree with your assessment of this one. Just TOO MUCH MISSING INFORMATION to be Legitimate at all.
    I agree with others that it was AWESOME and Fortunate of you to find Dr./Mrs Hammer and her testimony is pivotal and enlightening.
    I also agree with Ms. Ima France,… who posted :
    “Excellent job! It’s good that you have been able to contact Dr. Hammer! And I have a feeling that Klaus Dona should be challenged more often.”
    Ms. France is both Succinct, and Straight Forward. (^_^)
    Be well, Mr. Archy.

    Like

  23. Me.and.me

    You have posed some serious questions, but just because you haven’t found answers does it mean the artifact isn’t real. You can never get a scientist to agree with another, there are many different opinions concerning the real life pyramids in Africa/ Egypt and there is many different opinions on Stonehenge, the best way to find the answer you seek is to put together a team then travel and do the research yourself but to draw conclusions simply because people refuse to talk to you is irresponsible.

    Like

    • In journalism and research, when you attempt to interview someone talk to them about a particular topic,and they don’t reply or refuses to talk, it can draw some suspicions. With journsalism, you just put “Person A declined to comment.”

      Like

  24. Matt

    Lol at this, klaus clearly describes how the disk was found, need I not mention his English is limited. along with other artifacts. The fact modern day science won’t entertain the possibility of a world wide cataclysmic event is beyond me.
    The evidence is in our mythology in the form of global floods, in Greenland icecaps where examining ice from core drills shows global temperatures rose by 5c in a short period of time at end of the ice age.further more the fossil record of mass extinctions in that time period.
    Possible cause could have been comit hitting the Ice or sea causing global wipeout.
    This would have reset human life and most knowledge before it bar snippets that survived in stone.
    Anyone want to comment on the ancient pre iceage maps, lost city’s underwater of the coast of Cuba, India, Japan pretty much most coastal areas before the ice age ended
    Wake up people

    Like

  25. Justlookin

    Yes. All good work but. Do not believe in it. Sounds like like a lot of wasted time on my part. Best of luck to you all.

    Like

  26. Daniel K

    Finally I come across an individual who suspects this Klaus fellow of fraudulence. His name is always involved somehow in every one among this plethora of alleged “proofs” for the occurrence of “eye-pyramids,” golden ratio-related “spirals,” and the stars of the Orion in the Pre-Columbian Americas, none of which are even mentioned by mainstream archaeologists (as if these such finds, if authentic, would be unremarkable or too “dangerous” for the public to know about), and most of which always trace to an eccentric “Father Crespi” character (who possessed most of them for a time, as if some random individual were capable of finding so many ancient artifacts in one place in one lifetime), and “somewhere” in Ecuador. I applaud your research and doggedness to find answers! Keep up the good work!

    Like

    • Ashley F Howard

      I just wanted to reply about Father Crespi. He was a well loved priest who served his parish for over 40 years. It has been well documented how locals would bring him gifts, and his collection was grown from over 40 years of locals giving him gifts for presiding over rituals such as baptisims and funerals. He did not find him, hisself. His colletion consisted of several rooms filled with artefacts. He even had seperate rooms filled with the obvious fakes. He kept his collection mostly private, with it being sold off by the church while he was on his deathbed.

      Like

  27. Finally I come across an individual who suspects this Klaus fellow of fraudulence. His name is always involved somehow in every one among this plethora of alleged “proofs” for the occurrence of “eye-pyramids,” golden ratio-related “spirals,” and the stars of the Orion in the Pre-Columbian Americas, none of which are even mentioned by mainstream archaeologists (as if these such finds, if authentic, would be unremarkable or too “dangerous” for the public to know about), and most of which always trace to an eccentric “Father Crespi” character (who possessed most of them for a time, as if some random individual were capable of finding so many ancient artifacts in one place in one lifetime), and “somewhere” in Ecuador. I applaud your research and doggedness to find answers! Keep up the good work!

    Like

  28. Mack Blodarion

    Another round of useless pseudo-skepticism. I’m not entirely sure about this disk, but the artifacts Klaus presented were said to have been found in a gold mine, by an engineer in the 80s. His collection was then acquired by Klaus or someone he knew (maybe the designer you were speaking of), and that’s what he was working on and presenting.

    Now, as mentioned, I don’t know if the claim is 100% authentic. BUT, I do know there are very strong cases and documented incidents where the Smithsonian & others have purposely covered up, or retracted, removed, hide, obfuscated all kinds of archaeological finds that contradict modern establishment theories.

    Egyptologists actually say the Oseirion was a “hoax” by ancient Egyptians, because it doesn’t fit in with the rest of their manufactured histories.

    Also, see: “Fundamental Laws: The 68th convocation” a book written by a Rosicrucians order, recording the gathering their order in 1916. They state the uncut seal of the US was designed as such, unfinished. And it’s to be cut only when the “capstone” is ready to be placed on the pyramid. That in the golden age, or age of illumination, America was connected to Egypt by way of the Yucatan & when Mexico returns to the US the capstone will be ready.

    These people called themselves the Illuminati & have an ancient order which congregated for worship & ritual magic in the name of Isis & Osiris or the philosophy of the fire. They also warned of black brotherhoods, orders that were engaged in dark magic & corruption.

    The reason I mention this is because these orders, which hold sacred knowledge & texts, are well aware of many historical truths hidden from the world. (a colossal amount of proof of these things are in private collections)

    This might all sound like nonsense & conspiracy theory ramblings, but consider the fact the CIA created “Conspiracy Theorist” as a means of attacking those who questioned the JFK murder & in recent times, a CIA historian admitted (documented) that McCone & Dulles helped cover-up the crime, & prevent the commission from accessing the full truth. ~90 people related to the case died in 10 years back then. A 100,000 Trillion to 1 chance of happening.

    Conspiracies are the rule in politics throughout history, but in modern times we act like they’re the exception. We’ve allowed a massive secretive military industrial complex establishment to form, & they have complete control over the truth. They can dismiss & attack any who challenge establishment truths.

    The fact is, even if these items are real, they will still be denounced as fake, by any museum, by anyone in the establishment. Right away, the prevailing “truth” all must follow is “anything modern made” found in archeological digs or finds or of antiquity is automatically fake. That’s not scientific.

    Established theory approaches everything with pre-qualifiers. “Anything modern made is impossible to be from antiquity, ok, let’s investigate….look, a modern or unknown alloy, it’s fake!” and they find ancient statues or other items, and anything not fitting in to a preconceived conclusion is automatically ignored or buried, or discredited & the people involved attacked professionally. It’s ridiculous.

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  29. maureen

    I trust and like Dr. Klaus Dona. His slide lectures are sincere. What does he have to say about the HUMAN FISH of Slovenia and all the strange rocks and stones found nearby in the caves and underground river systems there? http://www.angelfire.com/de/Boiishaft/humanfish.html

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